The mark of a true innovator is such that their ideas are born before the market is ready to adopt their technology, product, or service, and Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene is no exception. Dawn says the key to helping people get aligned on your vision, to get their buy in, and support is education; that means educating the consumer on the problem your product is solving for, educating people on the solution you’ve created, and showing them why it’s the best solution available. Demonstrate the product, show its capabilities, and how it could benefits people’s lives, because ultimately, the goal is to build products that benefit the end user.
To pitch a technology, service, or product that will drastically change an industry is challenging, especially to investors who want to know that your product can be validated in a market where it doesn’t exist yet. When pitching, it’s important to show that you have deep knowledge of the field, you have advisors, mentors, experts in your network that believe in your product, and that there is a genuine need for it in the industry. Showing that you’ve done the research, and have credible people who are willing to back your product makes a significant difference. Lastly, VC money is not the only option for funding. Depending on the stage of your company and how much money you need to raise, other options like crowdfunding, friends, family, and angel investors may also be an option.
Cat Schmitz is currently the Creative Lead of the 5G Lab where she develops and designs new concepts around different technologies that 5G will enable. She designs experiences that show how 5G might enable more patient-focused healthcare experiences, enhance immersive entertainment, gaming, and more.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene is a serial entrepreneur and inventor with over 19 years of experience in marketing and business development. Her most recent ventures are Flat Out of Heels and PopCom. In 2019, Dawn became the first female CEO globally to raise a secure token offering (STO) over $1 million using equity crowdfunding under Reg CF the JOBS Act. In 2020, Dawn raised a second fully subscribed equity crowdfunding campaign, bringing her total to $2.3M raised from 4,800 investors.
PopCom YouTube channel - www.YouTube.com/PopComTech
PopCom crowdfunding campaign - www.StartEngine.com/PopCom
Cat Schmitz 0:05
Hi all! Thanks for joining us on your Thursday afternoon for our Mind the Gap series. Where every month we're highlighting the voice of an entrepreneur championing,inclusivity, representation, and progress for all women kind in tech. My name is Cat Schmitz and I'm the Creative Lead with Verizon 5G Labs. So we're super excited to host this discussion as a part of our 5G Lab virtual event series. For those of you who aren't familiar with Verizon 5G Labs, we work with startups we work with academia and enterprise teams to build a 5G powered world using the practical application of emerging technologies. Part of that mission includes having conversations like these that address barriers to digital inclusion create opportunities for communities to thrive and grow. And if you're interested in learning more about our work, you're welcome to visit verizon5glabs.com. As very important note, we'd also like to thank Alley for partnering with us to make this event happen. Alley is a community agency that unites rich and diverse communities across the country with corporate partners, and they provide resources and a catalyst to drive positive change in technology and the broader world. So, without further ado, I'd love to introduce you to our special guests for today's conversation. She is the Founder and CEO of the automated retail company Popcom. She is a serial entrepreneur, a founder of three prior businesses, and has been featured in countless media outlets, including Forbes Black Enterprise, Fortune, Huffpo, and more. In the midst of a very challenging year, she also raised over $2 million during the pandemic. And we are so honored to have Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene with us here today. So Dawn, please feel free to introduce yourself and share a little bit about you.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 2:11
Yes, my name is Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene, and I'm a serial entrepreneur and inventor. I've been an entrepreneur since 2000. So 2001. So I'm coming upon my 20 year anniversary as and I started five companies, five cashflow positive companies, I exited one. And there are three that are still in business. And my company's Popcom is a technology company, we build software to revolutionize automated retail.
Cat Schmitz 2:43
So you you've done this a bunch, you have been around the block, you've said five companies, which is huge, by the way, what inspired you to become a founder in the first place? And and what was the thing that kept you coming back over and over and over again?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 2:59
Yeah, so I've actually been full time founders since I started my first company. I never I never left I got the bug when I was in when I was in college studying Information Technology in 2000. And it was the very early days of just what we call then the World Wide Web. And when the days when AOL was sending on CDs to all of us to download messenger. That was my tech overall and understanding how technology is going to disrupt industries. And at the time, I had a degree in broadcast journalism, I still I have a degree in broadcast journalism, and I was headed into the the media industry, I want it to be on new on the news, I wanted to be an MTV VJ actually. And I wanted to understand I went to school for tech to understand how technology was going to affect media, in order for me to be competitive in the media industry. But then once I got into tech and got into my program, which was at which was web development, I fell in love with technology. And I seen an immediate way for me to use technology to apply to one of my my problems that I was facing as a young person at the time, which was that I was not able to find what was going on in my city. Because there was no again smartphones, no social media. I don't believe there was texting yet. And so the way to find out what was going on was to get flyers and paper. And I felt like we could use the internet to to make that easier. So that's how I got into tech. That's what that's what inspired me and was continuing to what why continue to start businesses was that once I realized that I could actually solve problems that I face, I continue to solve problems that I actually personally experienced. So all of the companies that I started came from problems that I personally experienced.
Cat Schmitz 4:50
Got it. So for those of you on the line, we were laughing before the the conversation started because we accidentally wore the same color. So we're totally matching. But there was something that you said and your response there that just made me laugh to myself, because you mentioned getting into technology and then falling in love with web. And I had a very similar experience where I thought I was going to be a brain surgeon in school. And I ended up learning how to code and in a web development class purely because I like, didn't know what to take. And then that just was a total catalyst. So what you're saying is, like, totally resonating with me, you know, you fall in love with the problem solving.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 5:34
Yeah.
Cat Schmitz 5:36
So um, so you mentioned a little bit about wanting to start in the in the media in the media industry, and and then you made that transition into tech, when when you say you fell in love? Was it an easy transition for you? What, what was your experience with that?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 5:55
Um, it definitely wasn't, wasn't easy, because it was so new people didn't understand it, people specifically, my parents and family. And so you know, I went to school, got a degree. And then I actually was working, I had a great job at a full time corporate job for about eight months. And then I started it my company is called the UrbanStar while I was working my corporate job. So I decided to quit my corporate job. And that is, you know, that that easy part was just having no mentors, having there was no programs, I was living in Columbus, Ohio, no one was ever talking about tech and entrepreneurship, and startups. And then my family didn't understand what I was doing. So the hard part wasn't exactly starting the business. That was pretty easy. And I knew how to code and my partner and I built everything ourselves. The hard part was getting my family and just getting the acceptance and support that was to do something very new. I mean, again, they did not understand the internet and how it can be a career at the time, like, what are you going to do with the web, that's not a career. And obviously, we know it is now. But in the beginning, just being a part of the very early stages of like online marketing and media and videos, it was, it was hard to wait for the general like, everyone else to catch up to where my head was. And that seems to be something I deal with all the time. In my businesses, I'm so early with my idea that the wait for people to catch up, especially Popcom.
Cat Schmitz 7:27
So for those, for those situations in which you are feeling like you're very early to the game, what are some strategies that you use to help people get on the same page with you or get their buy in or in the case of, of your family, just get them to say, you know, we support you and all of your endeavors.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 7:46
I mean, in the case of the general public is all around education. So everything that I do with all of my companies is educating the customer on the reason why the problem that we're solving for them, and for all of us, and then our solution, why it's the best solution, and continuing to educate, you know, demonstrate the product, show the capabilities and how it actually benefits people's lives, you want to build things that benefit people's lives. So it wasn't, that didn't, that wasn't the hard part for my family. They just wanted to make, I had some money. So my dad would always say things to me, like, show me your bank account, you know, like, I'll say, Dad, I won an award. Okay, well, what's your bank account look like? So that's how my family thinks about things. Are you actually making money? You know, but for as we know, as entrepreneurs, you don't make money right away a lot of times. So it took a little bit of time for my family to finally say, oh, she's actually onto something. And now 20 years later, you know, they're my biggest fans, of course.
Cat Schmitz 8:42
Sounds like there's, there's a lot of courage, you know, being being on the cutting edge, and just, you know, getting out there and doing it a lot and launching all of those companies. And obviously, through your track record. It's, it's it's so incredible. And quite frankly, from my perspective, earlier on in my career, I think it's really inspiring to me. Yeah, so so you mentioned that there was a kind of a lack of mentorship and advisors when when you were first starting out. How did you seek them out? How did you solve that problem that you faced?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 9:18
I didn't have a mentor in tech for many years. It just it wasn't a thing. You know, the technology industry was really concentrated in at the MIT's, and in Silicon Valley, and highly technical institutions at the Stanford so where everything was pumping out at the time, and I was at Ohio State, and I was at DeVry. So they're just not places that they were targeting to find the next big tech idea coming out of even though, you know, my business was amazing. And if I would have had those resources, it would, I know, telling where it would be today, because it didn't really well. But I found mentors by by actually moved. So I seen that the city that I was living in at the time hadn't really picked up to speed in the entrepreneurship ecoystem to support me and give me what I needed. And so I moved to Atlanta. And then I moved to Miami. And so I was I'm always open to do whatever it takes to succeed. And so I relocated to a market where there were more resources available and more entrepreneurs and more funding available.
Cat Schmitz 10:20
Got it. That's it. That's interesting. But it definitely sounds like you know, being in the right place around the people who can unlock the those next steps for you sounds really critical to have in your journey. Yeah. So in terms of in terms of when you're starting your business, what are some of the first things that you put into place? You mentioned, starting with the problem, but but what else are you thinking about? When you're thinking, I'm going to go out there, and I'm going to launch a business.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 10:53
Really, the most important thing when launching a business is making sure that there's a customer for it, you know, making sure that you understand the business, how you're going to how that business is going to make money. You know, we'll have these great ideas, and they are tons of great ideas are in our heads every day, all of us. But are these are these ideas, can they really turn into sustainable scalable businesses? And you know, what is the target a target market for? How are you going to go to market so before I, before I move forward with a business, I deeply researched the industry, the competitive landscape, and really make sure that before I start anything, I'm very clear on what the differentiator between what I'm doing and anything else out there is, and then being very, very clear about what it's going to take in order to scale the company, and what resources that I need. And so having that planning, in the beginning helps me to move forward. So even though people don't really read and write full business plan the way they used to, in the early, you know, 80s 90s and early 2000s, I think business plans are still very important to at least type up for the founder to get an overall understanding of the business and where you're going. And then that also aids in recruiting team members. So having a very deep understanding of your business. And what you want to do is important before you even start.
Cat Schmitz 12:13
Yeah, I mean, I'm nodding my head emphatically over here, because like, you know, at the 5G Lab, we are tasked with trying to figure out how 5G is going to impact all of these industries. And in technology, it's really easy to just lap a solution onto something and say, okay, yes, this is gonna work, this is gonna work. But the reality is like, you know, if you're doing something in healthcare, like you better be talking to patients, you better be talking to the doctors to really understand that core problem, and then understand how big this problem is that you're even trying to tackle in the first place. Yeah, where do I start? I certainly, I certainly get that. In terms of in terms of crafting and creating your team, what are you looking for? So now that now that you have this rock solid plan that showcases your vision showcases the research and showcases the promise. Where do you go from there? How do you build those teams?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 13:12
I mean, I'll tell you, for all, you know, we're all friends here. The hardest part about about being entrepreneur. For me, my personal journey has been the team building side of it. I had a Co-founder and for my first business, but for the other three of them. I'm a solo founder. And then on the most recent, I founded a restaurant with four other people that that I exited. and team building is very difficult. I mean, what I look for now, after years of learning what works, what doesn't work making a lot of bad hires, I realized that hiring for culture is what works best for me, you know, skills that people have skilled, a lot of people have great skills that can be applied to your company, but are they a good fit with your culture, your work style, do they startups are very different than a corporate environment. So if someone has a very long corporate background, they may not even align with the culture of a starup. And you know, and vice versa. So, for me, it's culture that that I look for, you know, a lot of the questions that I that I asked when we're interviewing are around just how they handle challenges, how they interact, what's the best way to kind of engage and communicate, especially now when we're remote. And so if a person is not used to really heavily engaging and communicating online, and they're used to that in person, it's not going to be a good alignment for a remote team like ours. So just always thinking about like, not only what skill set do they have. But what other soft skills can they bring to the team to enhance the company.
Cat Schmitz 14:42
I see, yeah, that certainly makes sense. And we're in a totally new time and it's crazy, you know, being a startup, you guys are thinking about new technologies and new ways of interaction and, and just the business as usual, is completely, completely upside down and on its head as well. Yeah, that makes sense. So, so, um, you know, you've been a woman in tech for almost two decades. So can you share with us what that journey has looked like?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 15:12
I mean, really, it the journey look like if I just look at it like holistically it looks like starting with in the beginning as a young black woman with never seen anyone that looked like me having no mentors, not even knowing what I was building was called a tech company, even though it was very much so hard coded, you know, integrated video, music and all these things we were doing even before YouTube came out, but it looked like just no resources, no one was out there saying like today, this is for women, entrepreneurs, like there was nothing like that. So today, when there's like so many resources for, for women, for people of color, for LGBTQ community, for just every community that has been marginalized, for any reason, there are now programs and opportunities and people who are there to support, I had to figure out 99% of the things that I was doing on my own because even though my parents were entrepreneur, they were not tech entrepreneurs. And the needs of a tech entrepreneur are very different than just a general entrepreneur that provides a service like say bookkeeping, or, you know, things like that. And so it's just what I see now is, is this is the best time in history, in my opinion, to be a female entrepreneur, because of how not only are we having resources, but we're recognized, as you know, being a huge difference maker in organizations, there's so many statistics around success of female led companies and the success of companies with females on the executive team. And these are just things that are coming out recently to encourage companies to say, listen, like you're hurting yourself by not bringing women to the table or looking at investors and saying, okay, if you care about getting returns, and you want this 100 X, it's a fact that females companies actually are performing better. Sothis, these things ourselves, are in place now. But it took 20 years to get this data in order to now have what we have today.
Cat Schmitz 17:12
Yeah, yeah. So if you could go back 20 years and tell your younger self, something when you were just starting? What What would you say?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 17:23
I'd say, Dawn, this is called a tech company. And you can go someplace called Silicon Valley, and get somebody to give you some real money and get some real help. And actually, why don't you just apply to go to Stanford while you're at it?
Cat Schmitz 17:37
I love that I love that it must be really exciting, though, you know, the to have have launched so many companies, and then to look at the landscape right now and just see those resources for people that are getting a bunch more people involved in this type of work and thinking.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 17:56
It is. And when we think about how many women pave the way for us to be here today that we don't even know their name, and they never got recognition. They never have a podcast like doing this with with us today. They never get the platform that we have. And we always have to just for me, it's important to just acknowledge that like, we are here today, because of people who've done so much work that we don't even know it. We're working on our behalf.
Cat Schmitz 18:24
Certainly, certainly it all it all builds. And I think it would be safe to say that you have paved the way for many, many women behind you as well.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 18:33
Certainly is our plan, goal and plan.
Cat Schmitz 18:37
So tell me have you have you seen a shift in the room from 20 years when you started to now? In terms of female representation?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 18:46
The first shift was I'm in the room. That's the first shift. I was not in the room. You know, I'm in the room. And I've been I probably I'd say in the room for about 10 years now. And the shift has been I mean, it's so it's so obvious now it's it's very diverse. It's been an intentional diversity of not only we think about ethnicity and gender, but diversity of perspective, diversity of worldview, diversity of experience, because it's very important to, to think about those things. When you think about diversity. You can have a room full of people of all you know, ethnicities and genders that went to Harvard. And that that's a certain segment anyway, you need different worldviews diversity is not only external, and so it's so important to note that so now in these rooms, a lot of times it is primarily white males or males, but I see the makeup of the males are more diverse/ Their background, their perspective more diverse as well. So I don't want to take away the credit of like, you know, it's not the same cookie cutter person there anymore. It's so diverse in many ways.
Cat Schmitz 19:56
What do you think that we could do to continue moving that needle in the right direction and moving it more towards, you know, it's getting diverse now, but how do we get it to the best case scenario where every board room has equal representation.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 20:13
I mean, we're on track, you know, we have this instant gratification society that we're in, and we want everything right now. And it's just not realistic. But it's really important to acknowledge the shifts that have occurred in the past 10-20 years and that are occurring every single day. I mean, just even recently, with the new administration in the White House, you see, look at the people that are being appointed, we're seeing a shift from the very top. And that's where it starts, it starts from the very top of our country. And that example will definitely trickle down. I mean, it goes across the board. So we have to continue to do the work that we're doing. And also when we get into these rooms, we have to perform. We have to exceed expectations. And we have to really demonstrate the value that we bring it, that's what we have to do in general, because we need to do that they're going to be instead of keeping us out, they're going to be begging us to come into these rooms.
Cat Schmitz 21:02
I love that. I teach, I teach a coding class at NYU. And a couple years ago, I walked in the room, and it was 20 women in my coding class out of a 25% class. And it was it was incredible. And I think (inaudible)
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 21:20
(inaudible) female my class when I was taking
Cat Schmitz 21:23
Yeah, it was It's incredible to see that shift. And and I think about what you just said is like we have to perform, so that they can't wait to get us in the room. And I think like, you know, my students, they always had a really hard time, like at the end of the year, they would have coded up this amazing thing. And then they would say, oh, no, I'm not an engineer. I'm not an engineer. And it's kind of like part of it is like, yeah, you need to like perform like crazy. And then you've got to own it. Like you just have to stand there and own it and say yes, I'm an engineer, and I can code and I can do this.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 21:58
No imposter syndrome around here. You know, just know you belong in every room that you're in.
Cat Schmitz 22:05
Note, I feel like I should just be like jotting these down for motivational posters and put on my walls later. They're so they're great. So you mentioned imposter syndrome? How have you faced imposter syndrome and in your, in your time as an entrepreneur?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 22:20
You know, I didn't think I did. Because like a lot of confidence. And I've always been this way. But one of my mentors did say that I was I was exhibiting imposter syndrome even recently and this 2020 I was asked to speak in front of Congress for a blockchain hearing about blockchain and small business and I was like, can you find someone else to do this? I just I'm kind of the best person in the country to speak on this on this at this hearing? Are you sure you can't find anybody else to speak about blockchain? And they're like, Dawn, we want you you know, this is imposter syndrome. You belong here. Why would you tell us to find somebody else? And I and I went ahead and did it. And you know, and that has helped me realize, like, you know, if I am the best one to do it, if they say so if they if I'm the one that they chose, so, I guess I do sometimes experience that when, you know, I'll feel like I have so much more to accomplish in my career. Because I have big goals and I look at people that inspire me and they're so far ahead. But I have to acknowledge to myself how far that I've come and no but I do deserve the things that I am receiving as far as like giving getting my flowers and get ours now as they say and people recognize me for my achievements even though I don't feel like I'm even scratch the surface of what I want to do in my life.
Cat Schmitz 23:38
Yeah, yeah. It's like you're so focused and in the weeds on building and building and making and making and making that you you've never looked behind and see where you started and how are you come.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 23:49
(inaudible) that and it shifted my mindset drastically, because now it makes sure that I take time to celebrate every small win, like everything, I just, I consider success to be accomplishing goals. So every time I accomplish a goal that I said, I'm like, okay, I'm successful, I have successfully done this. Instead of looking at this big giant, you know, goal, and then telling when we'll achieve that, but there's so many smaller things we have to do to get to that big thing that we have to celebrate.
Cat Schmitz 24:17
So okay, let's put this let's put this into practical practical steps that our audience including me can can practice so how do you celebrate the small wins? What do you do for yourself?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 24:29
I mean, it can be many things because you know taking time to okay for example, I'll give an example of a real time example. I've been working since 2012 to to put out a vending machine that's smart with my company Flat Out of Heels products that took me happen to fail many times lose a lot of money run out of business. Sweat and tears start Popcom, raise money for Popcom go through multiple prototypes. And finally the machine went live in Polaris mall in Columbus on November 1. So that's the vision is have 1000s of machines, millions of machines all over, but we have one. And I had to say, you know, we celebrated by everybody getting UberEats dinner because we couldn't have dinner. But everybody UberEats on the company and we're going to have UberEats eats dinner to celebrate that we have one because it took us eight years to get one and even though it's not at all, like the end goal. And it's actually such a, like a small drop, when you think about like a big business. Having one machine is amazing. And so we everything, or just when we, when we complete our KPIs, and, you know, we're looking, we're looking through in our own hearts, I'm like, we met our goals this quarter, let's just acknowledge it and celebrate. So every single thing, just, you know, don't move past that, check it off and keep going. Look at what you've done and you know, at one time, what you completed was like a goal. And it's done. And so we have to always make sure that we do that.
Cat Schmitz 26:01
Yeah, well, congratulations on the machine, it must feel awesome to have gone from so many different types of prototypes to get to like, this is functioning and working.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 26:14
Yes, I've had a couple that didn't work at all. I mean, it's just, it was crazy. And it's still a lot. But again, I'm very happy that I had an idea. It was in my brain, I put it on paper, I made it a real thing. I have a patent on it, and it's in the world now. And so I feel very happy about that.
Cat Schmitz 26:34
I think gonna, one of the things that sticking me here that I have experienced personally as a designer is like all of the moments in which you failed miserably. I remember working on projects, you know, where I would have something every Monday and this this little like Arduino thing would be smoking and then like the next day, it would be sizzling. And and it was like, every time I did it, there was like something wrong. And it just took so much determination to say, you know what, I've learned that this method does not work for us. And like appreciate it as equally valuable information even though like in your heart that perfectionist, right that type A personality is wanting to like sit there and deliver this like thing that it would have taken 35 engineers and two years to create.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 27:26
Definitely
Cat Schmitz 27:28
Yeah, so I definitely I totally, totally get where you're coming from on on a micro scale. Um, okay, so let's, let's talk about Popcom a little bit more. And, and your your whole journey with that. So you've mentioned you've been working on this for several years. In terms of your fundraising journey, how did you decide to like, go with funding? You know, what, what was your approach with that?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 27:57
My first approach was the traditional way. So I went through an accelerator program. So my first step friends and family had a friend invest accredited angel invest $90,000, that allowed me to just like figure things out, spent several years working on prototypes. Then I realized I knew what I wanted to do and wanted to scale, went to accelerator programs raised around a funding, a million dollars from VC, an accredited angels and accelerators. And then, you know, got to work, it was time to really go back again, you know, everyone knows that there's multiple rounds and a million dollars cannot pick a company from start to exit. So I had to go back and raise some more money. And I just wasn't really happy with the terms that I was getting on my next round, or what would be like a bridge round between, you know, the friends and family seed and to the seed round. And I decided then, that I was going to go an alternative direction and take advantage of newly passed legislation of the JOBS Act to raise money in through crowdfunding. And it was very controversial was not, you know, people were not happy about it. It wasn't even widely accepted in 2018. I decided to do this. It was not popular crowdfunding was not something that you see companies that are high growth tech companies are doing it was more so product projects, like Indiegogo and Kickstarter for products. But you didn't see many tech companies. It wasn't popular. But I really felt that this was I do feel that micro angel investor are the future of investing. That leveling the playing field and allowing everyone to invest in early stage companies not only creates wealth and with groups of people that were previously left out of these opportunities, but also gives founders a way larger pool of investors to pick from and that's what I needed. I wanted to be able to tap into my network and raise money from people in my network, but many of them are not accredited, which means they make $200,000 a year as individual $300,000 a year as a married couple. But that doesn't mean if you don't make 200 grand that you don't have money. I mean, you that doesn't mean that at all. So I thought it was really unfair to leave these people out. And so that's why I raised now today, uh two point 2.7 or 2.8. in crowdfunding, as of now I have an open round now. So that's why I couldn't exactly calculate because we raise money every day, which is great, because it's rolling, and you can continue to raise money for until you reach your goal.
Cat Schmitz 30:27
I see, so if if I'm going to be if I'm going to be a founder, and I'm thinking about, you know, funding, what what are some of the things that I should be keeping in mind? And, and what are the what are the things that I should be really, really paying attention to, and going over with a fine tooth comb?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 30:46
I mean, you need to definitely before you even think about asking investors for money is prepare what's called due diligence, document documents due diligence data room, and it's really for your purposes, so you have all your financials in there, your incorporation documents, or projections or contract with your team, just your business all packaged up nicely, so people can get a high level overview and understand your business. You know, there, so you need to have that. But then you have to think about how much money do you need? And where should you get it from everyone automatically assumes that you should go pitch to VC. Every business is not for venture capital and every stage you know, so it's like there's a there's a right time for VC. And sometimes it's never the right time for VC because of the terms and because of their expectations of the return. And because they're looking for businesses that are going to scale to the hundreds millions to build, you can build an amazing $50 million business. And that's an amazing business. But venture is that looking for $50 million businesses, for being very aware about when to take capital at certain times. So when I think about capital, I mean, I've literally, I've raised me or I've brought capital to my businesses every way that's possible between bootstrapping, friends and family, angel investors, accelerators, pitch competitions, grants. I mean, everything that you can think of, you know, I've done personal you know, taking out small business loans, lines of credit, po financings, it's like being very creative. And to know if you need a quick $10,000 or $100,000, you don't, VC is not the route. There's other ways. So just doing a deep dive to understanding the investor profile, and who's the right investor to target at the time, and I do have a talk about this actually, on my YouTube page that I just did a whole talk about the pros and cons of raising capital. And when, at what stage do you raise various types of capital?
Cat Schmitz 32:43
Oh, that would be that would be great to check out and take a look at that. So again, I I'm really seeing like a trend as we're talking. And it's just that you are so incredibly creative, every step of the way, when it comes to figuring out what your problem is doing the research for your business, figuring out your team and making sure that they're a really good culture fit, and then making sure that you're bringing enough money and the right type of money into your business to make it possible. So we, you know, you mentioned a little bit about Popcom, and some of the challenges that you've had, but what are some other challenges that you've had along the way? And what what are some of your, like, best lessons learned?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 33:25
Yeah, for sure. Um, and aside from team building, and finding the right team members, and then you know, our geographic location of being in Columbus wasn't always the easiest to attract talent, um, being under resourced to hire full time team members, and then being kind of having no option but to work with outside contractors. It I definitely experience a lot of challenges and difficulties working with people that don't aren't really vested in the team. And that just see it seen as, as you know, a project or a client and didn't really take ownership. And so I struggled with that until I raised enough money to be able to bring people on, but I wasn't getting the I wasn't progressing from under Popcom. And we weren't really getting traction we needed because we didn't have that buy in from from team members. So that was definitely a challenge. Lack of knowledge, you know, I get into industries because I start businesses as a result of a problem that I experienced. But that doesn't mean I'm experienced in solving the problem. I just experienced the problem. So when I started Flat Out of Heels, for example, I mean, I didn't have any experience sourcing, you know, I didn't have experience working with manufacturers, importing exporting. I didn't have any experience with you know, really growing a retail business. So I learn everything as I went and constantly like education, education, but the thing about it is you don't know what you don't know. Until you find out. And sometimes you find out when it's late and when it's too late and you've taken an expensive loss, which I say expensive lesson. So many of the things that I've experienced, you know challenges, even with pop comments I'm in, I'm building a software company with a hardware component. And hardware is very hard. And no one had any background and hardware on the team. And so we ran into that for two years, just until we finally this year 2020, we're able to bring someone in with hardware, and then voila a products out. So just I think it's the lesson is identifying who you need on your team. And when you know that don't cut corners, don't even move forward until you're able to do what you know you need to do. A lot of times will will try to rush you'll be in a rush and say, well, I'm just gonna go with this person, because they're the cheapest, or they'll do it for free. But it's not good work. Wait until you can get it done with a type of talent and experience that's going to produce a product that you can actually use.
Cat Schmitz 35:52
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, and people love quality, and they need the problem solved well, not halfway, halfway there. So yeah, absolutely. So we have a question from the crowd that I'd like to read, because I think it's totally, totally relevant. So you mentioned creating ideas that were beyond current or available technology. The question is, how do you persuasively pitch an innovative idea that could drastically change the trajectory of an industry?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 36:26
Wow. So how do you persuasively pitch it? Um, you know, I think it's not in the pitch. It's, it's in who you're talking to. And so if you know, you're going to do something that's going to drastically change an industry, you definitely should be talking to people who are in that industry who have deep knowledge and understanding because they will see your vision right away, going right to investors who don't who aren't deep in the industry, they're not going to get it, they're not going to understand it. I mean, imagine if like, you know, we have this phone, right, like, this is a phone now, this is a phone, I am 42. That's not what a phone was when I was growing up. So imagine if someone just came up like, hey, like back, then this is going to be a new phone, nobody would listen to you, they would think you're insane. Unless you're in the you know, telecommunications industry or deep in an industry where you say, this is going to be the new phone, because I know that we're going to go to this technology, I know you see it work in the background working on it. But that's what you need to do find someone in industry that gets what you're doing, who really believes in it and ask them to be an advisor, then you tell advisor, take that expert, and then you go move forward, because you'll say listen, maybe I don't have money to do this. And it's very this, this idea is very revolutionary. But this person who's an expert, believes that I can do this, and they know what's needed. Now you move forward. And that's what I did. I mean, I found experts in the industries, and particularly in automated retail and facial recognition. And it was just me and my team of advisers, I had no team members, but the advisors showed investors that I was, you know, validated, you know, and that they that I've done the research and that they that based on their expertise, this could be a real thing.
Cat Schmitz 38:11
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And in one way you like, You're such a designer, in the sense that like, designing new products is not about being the expert, and knowing everything about anyone and every type of concept. It's about being like, it's about being courageous enough to like, walk into a room full of experts and say, Hey, I don't really know any of this, because I don't have a 15 year history of working in the medical field or working in robotics or in hardware. Please tell me what what we need to know and what we're walking into here.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 38:49
Yes, some people will have you know they will, they will help I would not be where I am today without many, many people seeing something in me in Popcom to say, let me just help her by making a phone call or introduction or get some feedback or, you know, people people are very willing to help. That's what I have found.
Cat Schmitz 39:09
Absolutely. So tell me so you having a business plan, you know, where to get funding? You have the right people in the room to solve the problem. How are you putting your ideas in front of users and customers to validate that? At what point are you doing that type of work?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 39:28
Um, for me, you know, my passion and my expertise in my career really is is marketing as my top, you know, skill, like hard skill is marketing. And I will start early. I wouldn't wait until even if you don't want to tell exactly what the product is, the entire time that you're building your business, even if it's not out yet. You should be positioning yourself as a thought leader in the space and really putting information and content out there through your personal channels, to just to talk about why you're doing what you're dping. To talk about why you're passionate about the industry, you're in to talk about why you're passionate about the problem that you're solving, to position yourself that when you are ready to launch, they can see that you are the best person to deal with. The marketing starts with yourself as the CEO and founder from day one. And then when the product is out, if you do this, right, you've already built a community of people who are following what you're doing. By the time you put the product out, they're engaged, if you don't have that opportunity to engage people support before, if you have a product, now you're figuring out how to get it out. What I have found is that this is the great thing about you know, online and social media. When I has my first company, everything was grassroots, I had to go stand outside of nightclubs and restaurants and go to festivals and get people to sign up for my email list with a clipboard. And writing emails by hand. Now, you literally can get on social media, blogs, podcasts, Instagram live, YouTube, live Facebook live, so many content creators are out there. And what I did was just get on every single podcast blog possible. I mean, I didn't turn down and I still don't to this day, I've been in like Forbes and CNN. And I'm still doing podcasts that I've never heard of that could be a small podcasts, micro influencer, but they're very valuable. And so if you just try to get your message to as many sources as possible, and then also focus on driving your SEO so that when people are typing in keywords about your industry, you and your content rise to the top. So it's a lot of things that you can do. But it starts with you as a founder and CEO, positioning yourself as a thought leader and getting your company out there. I start with free micro influencers.
Cat Schmitz 41:40
Got it. So and that's awesome. So you're, you're just being so engaged with with everyone around you, you're meeting experts, you're talking to the experts, and soon you become the expert, and you become top of mind.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 41:56
Yes. And the great thing about again, you know, the positive side, not the great thing, this is not great. But the positive side, the brighter side of this pandemic is that we are now able to attend conferences and events virtually, and connect with people around the world that we may not have been able to travel to these conferences or even afford a ticket that are but now you can meet people in network and connect online and people are open to it. But take full advantage of the virtual conferences and events that are existing today because they're not going to be like this forever.
Cat Schmitz 42:27
Absolutely. So we have another great question from the audience. They want to know what were some of the obstacles you faced when you were gaining knowledge from field experts.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 42:39
You know, I transparent wise I never, I never face any obstacles. I'm in the vending in automated retail industry is a very old industry, primarily white male dominated industry, really just older people in general industry. And they were welcoming of me to come in and bring diverse ideas and perspectives. They were actually even happy to see the diversity in, you know, coming to the industry, because they don't want the industry to get shut down or get wiped away. Like there's millions of people working in this industry. And it has to be innovated, it has to be disrupted, rather with technology to continue to scale. So I didn't get any resistance if they're all I mean, I reach out cold email reach out or cold LinkedIn reach out to like the top people over at Redbox or Coinstar and they always get back with me the top president of you know, Swift, which is a company that has the the BestBuy machines, I reached out to them on LinkedIn, and we met in person, everyone has been so helpful in my particular industry. I can't speak for all industries, but they don't see me as competition or threat in any way.
Cat Schmitz 43:49
I see. And it's probably because you're working on a solution that is so relevant to their day to day and ensures the longevity of that industry.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 44:00
Yes.
Cat Schmitz 44:01
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. So maybe we should transition a little bit. We've talked a little bit about Popcom here and there. But I think it would be great to go back to the start and understand you know more about that problem. What what exactly were you facing before the genesis of the idea for Popcom?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 44:27
Yeah, so I was selling my shoes right out of heels, in online stores and in vending machines. And as commerce entrepreneur, I was taking advantage of all the tools available, online and mobile shopping that allowed me to remarket, retarget generate leads, engage and create a community around my product and really connect with my customers in a very organic, organic way. But when I was selling my shoes and vending machines, there were no tools that existed to even engage with them or even know anything about them. So they would just you know, swipe their card, pick a product and walk away. At the point, when I first started, there wasn't even the ability to collect an email address from a customer. So imagine selling 1000s of pairs of you know, 1000s of your products, and you don't have a single email address to go back and say, Hey, we have more, we're back in stock, find another one. So I really was bothered, like cutting a business if I wasn't able to, at the bare minimum, get contact information for my customers. And so it started out with just wanting to be able to generate leads, and do digital receipts. But then it ended up being that I wanted to understand my conversion rates, I want to know how many people walk by my machine, I wanted to be able to deliver targeted messaging to them, all these things are existing already in the e commerce and online environment. So I said, let me figure out how I can bring the e commerce environment to my vending machine. I didn't think I was going to have to invent it myself, I started going to all of the vending and automated retail trade shows. So I went to all these shows, and around the country just networking with people in industry to figure out what technology existed that I could use. And I didn't see anything at all. And that's when I knew that I had to solve my own problem. And I kind of felt like I had no, no option, because if I did it, I wouldn't be able to grow my business Flat Out of Heels.
Cat Schmitz 46:13
Hmm. Interesting. And so yeah, the other level of insight is, is really helpful. It sounds like for your business and making sure that it's not just your selling, and that's it. But continuing that conversation with those customers for the long term. Absolutely. So in terms of in terms of Popcom, where, you know, you mentioned it's in one, which is amazing one location, where where do you see it being rolled out? You know, what's your vision for what this could be? When you have many of them?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 46:50
Yeah, definitely. So our business model is that we sell or lease the machines to retailers so they can sell their products. And then they make our money from software as a service. And then also through our ad platform, a transactions process across the platform. So we still operate very much like an e commerce platform. And so the the retailer is going to choose their locations, we have 20 machines rolling out in quarter one of next year. And the locations include airports, hotels, transit, places like a train stations, college campuses, that really we tell our retailers put the machine anywhere where you're where your customers are, you know, what are your objectives, what are you trying to accomplish, and then that's where you put the machine. So I really see these machines, being their digital pop up shops, they help to close the last mile, you can order products from them and get them shipped to you. You can order products online, pick them up a machine, you can just walk up to a machine buy a product. And it's really a part of a true omni channel strategy by retailers to close the last mile. And that's what I see it being used as and of course, Popcom we have more than one machine they can be our software works with, we have our pop shop, which is our patented machine. We also work with our manufacturing partner who can deliver multiple types of machines, different sizes, refrigeration, you know, other other options for hardware that our software integrates into.
Cat Schmitz 48:14
Got it. So with COVID, how do you think? How is it that impacting the strategy of where people are putting putting these devices?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 48:26
I mean, now it's just people are people, individuals, humans are looking for contactless experiences, so that the concept of the airport if anyone's traveled lately, you'll see most everything in the airport is closed, the stores are closed down. And so it's like looking for ways to still retail items in person, people are still outside in the world, but they don't want to have contact with other people. So they're thinking about where are people at despite the pandemic, where are they still going? Because either they have to, you know, where are they? And how can we create an experience to distribute a product or our transaction, complete a transaction, whether it's ordering food and picking it up, where they have to have limited and as minimal human contact as possible in a safe way. So we'll see that happening. airports, stores, again, campuses, retailers are still seeing the value in a physical presence. But it has to change. So it's shifting. So how are we going to deliver products to people, when it's you know, they're not maybe at the malls as much we're going to turn the college student union into a mall full of vending machine, a mall. So just the way we buy things is going to change the way it has already. I mean, we see how we shop Amazon, and it's going to change once again where people are, I believe, personally people will be adopting vending the way they do in Japan and China.
Cat Schmitz 49:51
Absolutely. Well, I'm certainly looking forward to see where it goes next and congratulations again on on the awesome accomplishment of inventing this amazing machine.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 50:03
Thank you so much. It's, it's I'm really excited. I'm so happy to see it. And I can't wait until everybody gets to play with it, you know, but if people want to see demos of our software and hardware, and we have real demos of our machine working with on our YouTube page youtube.com/popcomtech. And there's tons of things you can see there. And then, of course, our website, popocom.shop
Cat Schmitz 50:27
All right, cool. We will all have to check that out. Um, okay, so I want to be sensitive to the time we only have a couple minutes left. There is one question in the comment from the crowd. And then I have a couple more for you. Kirsten says there's a stat that black women make up only 1% of VC funding. Have you seen this reflected in your experience?
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 50:51
Um, no, I think that I, that's my least favorite statistic. Number one, I think I don't think it's that accurate. And number two, it's very, it could be very discouraging, if I even did, because can you imagine it's, if you're going into a room of investors with a statistic in your head that you get 0% of funding? You know, so there's a recent report actually was on CNN, I was in it last week. And now, today, there's been 90, 93 African American women who've raised over a million dollars, and there's been, I believe, 90 of LatinX women. And so I that statistic is changing. Now, that's a million dollars, think about how many women have raised 25,000 100,000 to get so I think that these statistics aren't all the way right anymore. I think a lot of people aren't, aren't even getting counted. But don't let it discourage me at all. I mean, it's understandable considering that we didn't even know about the industry, as you know, as a overall community, it was very concentrated to Silicon Valley and New York, and maybe Boston, you know, so are just these markets where they had these tech pockets. So I think now that access to capital access to programs for support, and just knowing that there's a, there's angel investors out there, I mean, there's so many more people investing than there was before. But when you think about where you get money from, I typically get money from your community, your network, or people who are in your industry. But if you're typically, you know, if you're a black woman, not many people in your network, if you're, if you're outside of these concentrated areas are in that space. And so it's understandable, it's I don't think it is, um, it just makes sense that all the money was that black woman didn't get money, because they weren't really in these in these communities. Now we are and now, I believe, over the next five years, it's going to be drastic difference in the numbers.
Cat Schmitz 52:55
Mm hmm. That's, that's certainly, that's certainly inspiring and good to know, right? That status is no longer representative and reflective of the reality. All right, so my last question for you. What advice would you give to the middle school girl who loves science, or the college undergrad who finds herself in her first computer science class, or the eager MBA student who's interested in pursuing her own dream and launching a startup
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 53:23
That three different people. So for I think, all of them. I mean, it's kind of different, especially for the ones are in the startup, because the startup may not have to be technology. But I will say technology is such an important foundation for everything that we do that for all three of these profiles that you mentioned, I just would tell them that get as many technology skills as you can. It doesn't mean you have to be in tech, like in the tech coding yourself. But understanding these things can be applied to anything that you do. And also you can, for me, like I'm a marketer, but I'm like a tech enabled marketer. And so I always tell people, you don't have to be a techie or a coder to be in tech. You can take your skills that you have in the passion that you have. And you can take that to the technology industry. So say you love HR, you love marketing, you're a lawyer, you, you're a copywriter, you're a publicist, all these things are needed in technology industry. So I would say sharpen your skills. And then whatever skills you do already have are completely transferable to what you want to do in tech. My other advice is just to trust yourself. And don't compare yourself to anyone else's journey. Everyone's journey is very unique. It takes 10 years to be overnight success. You don't even see the nine years you just see the one last year that that person got the success and they look like they're rich and famous, but they were starving for nine years before that. So I just want you to really know that, that if you don't quit, you can't fail and you can continue as long as you don't compare yourself to anyone else.
Cat Schmitz 55:00
I love that I love that. I it's it's really inspiring that you know the fact that you said, you can't see, you don't see the nine years of work that it went in for this thing to be an overnight success, especially with social media and and how all of us are learning about self marketing and self promotion. Like, no one's posting on their LinkedIn page. Well, I failed again today for nine years in a row. Right? Everyone's just posts the final YouTube video. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's, that's awesome. That's that's really good for all of us to think about is just like, recognizing all of the hard work that goes into it continuing to grow, continuing to learn and continuing to expand that skill set. And just run with those ideas when we have them.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 55:52
Absolutely.
Cat Schmitz 55:54
All right, so we only have two minutes left. So I think it is time to wrap but I wanted to thank you so much Dawn for having an incredible conversation with me. And and just really I know I'm walking away totally inspired about what's possible in the world. And I'm looking forward to seeing what you get up to.
Dawn Dickson-Akpoghene 56:15
Thank you so much. It's been my pleasure. And I want to tell anyone that was a question about connecting with me on LinkedIn. Yes, please connect with me on LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com/DawnDickson, and I'm very responsive. And I also always engaged and I will share the bad things that happened because I think it's important so you'll definitely see if you're looking for some founder failures. I've definitely shared some on my medium blog. But yeah, I'm happy everyone's here. Thank you for engaging Thank you for taking time out of your day to join Cat and I.
Cat Schmitz 56:45
Absolutely. So I'll do some closing words on my end. So this conversation has been recorded and it will be available tomorrow if you know you want to share this content with any of your communities. And this event officially wraps our December retail events but stay tuned with us because we'll be back in January and we'll be kicking off 2021 with our sports series that covers everything from 5G connectivity, the fan experience player tracking and more so again, if you'd like future information please visit us at verizon5Glabs.com sounds like all of us need to become friends on LinkedIn with Dawn and again, thank you so much for for joining us and stay safe and have a wonderful holiday season.
Cat Schmitz 57:36
Thanks, guys.